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Author Topic:   Weaken the stronghold
Jack Fear
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posted 20-09-2000 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Fear   Click Here to Email Jack Fear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am positively fucking breathless with anticipation.

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Ray Fawkes
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posted 20-09-2000 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ray Fawkes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ganesh,
I do agree with you - there's a strange double standard going on...people want a quick fix, but they're also ready to complain about the tendency to prescribe a quick fix.

Then again, I realize that the perception of growing concern may well be completely illusory - there is a growing presence in the press, but that has less to do with actual problems than with story sales.

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Jack Fear
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posted 21-09-2000 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Fear   Click Here to Email Jack Fear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am still waiting for RRM to come down from the mountain and enlighten us.

I am breathless with... oh, wait... that's not anticipation...

Phew! Somebody open a window!

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ReformedRobotMan
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posted 22-09-2000 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReformedRobotMan   Click Here to Email ReformedRobotMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Herne 16-9-2000
'What do you think is so interesting?'

How about your health and your perceptivity.

'All I can see is my breath stinking.' Didn't know that one can see one's breath stinking, but, of course, you walk the path of magic, don't you?

'And my bowels will be runny...yuk!' Runny bowels (to use your language) means sick bowels and switching from prepared to unprepared foods will only make your bowels run if, indeed, you have been eating the worst your body can think of.
Wai.

Tiresias 17-9-2000
'I've just checked the site...'

If you have a photographic memory, never ate any prepared high protein foods, never drank any alcohol or took chemical drugs and you have the age of at least...60/90 years then you can just check the site. But for you, Tiresias, it's really impossible, as your brain receptors aren't the cleanest anymore and, therefore, you will need a lot of time to understand what waisays. The first step for you is to open up your consciousness and tap into your subconsciousness, walk the path in between and connect left to the right. Do you believe that you are capable of doing so? I don't think so.

'One or two facts smothered in scads of bollocks...?' Wai dares you, point out the one or two facts and show Wai how these one or two facts are smothered in scads of...What was that again? Ah yes, Wai remembers now...Bollocks!

'Dubious of a site that doesn't automatically work on Netscape'...My, my brainwashed by society as well. Microsoft is the enemy, right? Open your eyes and listen to your subconsciousness instead of running after the flocks (and your stools must be stinking all the way to China). Tiresias, did you know that the world is a tad bigger than your Netscape garden? Have a nice day.
Waisays.

Ganesh 17-9-2000 10.46 pm
'Particularly authoritative claims to know the cause of disease.'

Every disease is characterized by specific biochemical failure, and its cause can be discovered by finding what can elicit those distinguished characteristics.
By nature, disease can only occur spontaneously if it is inherent to genetic failure. Normally, cell fission in all tissues is fixed, limiting life span of all cells, which is according to life span of the individual. Disease of an organ due to genetic failure is extremely rare (<o,1%), since it is the extreme result of natural shifts in individual qualities to enable adaptation and improvement in reaction to a changing enviroment. And because genetic failure decreases reproduction chance, genetically determined diseases can never outgrow marginal importance.
Over 99,9% of diseases is therefore caused by enviromental factors that can elicit the distinguished characteristics. These environmental factors are:

-chemicals in the air we breathe, or enter our body through the skin.

-chemicals in the food we eat.

-malnutrition.

-drugs/medication.

-physical damage due to accident or aggression.

Only the chemicals in the air that we breathe and the food that we eat daily influence all humans on a major scale.
The reason why specific chemicals can cause disease is because of their ability to impair natural biochemistry in specific organs.
For example:
Parkinson's disease is characterized by excessive death of dopamine and/or serotonine receptors in the brain. Different scientific research have revealed that specific chemicals can specifically kill those receptors, that these exact chemicals are present in food, that they actually enter the brain after consumption and that in deceased Parkinson's patients exactly these chemicals are found in the brain.

And yes, I say that 1+1+1+1+1=5

Of course, Parkinson's can also be caused by repeated blows to the head or by medication which exhausts dopamine/serotonine metabolism. But less people are called Cassius Clay or have used Prozac since childhood, than there are people eating prepared proteinous food every day, containing heterocyclic amines which kill dopamine and serotonine receptors.
'Replacing...shakier set of beliefs?' Clarify yourself Ganesh. Calling people stupid? Calling them clever would be mendacious.

Wai is not selling anything, so
stupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupidstupid, thank you.

Ganeth 17-9-2000 11.30 pm
You are a mouthpiece for the medical-pharmaceutical world, your teachers would be very proud of you. You must have been a very good student and also already of age, because their truth has become your truth. All that you say comes from an impregnated mind that learned their truth to be the truth and using it as your truth which eventually became your truth. Do you remember what your truth was before you got brainwashed or did you think that studies where there to teach you the truth about diseases? The truth about what causes diseases doesn't make money. Investing in schools and universities does. Or do you think that the money students pay is enough for the schools and universities to exist? Did you ever wonder why universities are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies? Or are you saying that you did not know? You make nice delusive remarks, just as you should because you are medically trained, but Wai did not hear any medical content or have you forgotten everything you've learned? If I view a site with contents that are medically untrue and I want to give my opinion, I would pick out one of the worst stated facts and use my medical knowledge to specify what is wrong with it.

You, Ganesh, really have no idea what is going on in the world, now, do you? Playing too much magic games, have you? Let me ask you some questions, maybe you will answer and maybe you will not:

What has been the reason for the food industry to merge like that for the last 6 to 10 years-

What made the pharmaceutical world to grow so fast over the last 6 to 10 years-

What has made the people in the western world/societies so sick, obese, depressive, aggressive, schizophrenic and psychotic?

What causes the extreme increase of premature babies-

What makes 56% of the Americans too fat, 60% of the Australians too fat, 47% of the English too fat, 46% of the Dutch too fat-

What causes the increase of ADHD kids in all the western world countries-

Why are the children getting dumber and dumber in the western world?

What makes the western world seek control with their dollar, euro and sterling pound-

Why are there so many children and babies being sexually abused in the western world and by the western world-

Why are the pedophiles being protected by the church and governments in these western countries-

Why does the church seek to gain back their control over the people, knowing that 60% of the pedophiles are priests who abuse the children of the same people that they want to control-

Why does the church think that they can make the people still trust them-

Why are they so convinced of the short memory of the people?

Global conspiracy? Western world conspiracy to gain control globally, you mean.

The medical orthodoxy has nothing to recommend it anymore. Greed and the lust to control and be the biggest in their field is the name of their game. The medical orthodoxy is good at mending bones, transplanting organs (which they steal from youngsters when they don't have enough organs, covering it up through satanic rituals for which satanic groups are blamed for) killing cancer-cells and fighting symptoms with drugs without taking away the cause. Then the people come to depend on those drugs and for every other disease that merges, they get new drugs.

Vaccination, are you really that indoctrinated or merely a fool with a big ego, or do you vaccinate little babies yourself? Where do you think the medical world has all its DNA from, why do you think the UK is ready to clone humans and the United States is doing so already, secretly, why do you think that women as young as 24 can't have babies, why do babies who get vaccinated die in 24 to 48 hours after their vaccination, why do you think the babies scream in pain when they get vaccinated or do you belong to these fools in the medical world who did not know that little babies feel pain?

Vaccination kills million of babies and little children in the world, and this my dear Ganesh is the fucking reality (excuse my language) and what makes vaccination even more suspect is that one form of vaccination is only given to females in particular.

So, mister Ganesh, in the mood for some serious opening your eyes to the real needs of sick people? Wai.

Tiresias 18-9-2000 11.00 am
You find me one scientific investigation that proves that consuming prepared food is healthier than consuming unprepared food.

Its not about trusting Wei...? Ooops, wrong spelling, Wai. Its about trusting your own common sense, but then again who am I referring to, you or the addicted slave of commerce you have become. So, Tiresias, part of the industry, hey?

We are chilling and leaning back, looking at you slowly but surely crossing that bridge to Alzheimer's and incontinence, flavoured with chemotherapy. Wai will read you the latest Potter book in the hospital, shall I make reservations?

Herne 18-82000 11.56 am
Pharamaceutical companies conspiring with the governments approval...why would they?

Herne, I really don't want to offend you, but wake up! Do you seriously think that they eat their own garbage? The more sick people there are, the higher the profits of the pharmaceutical companies. The more the people over-eat, the bigger the sales of the food-industry, imagine how happy they would be if everybody were fat or obese. Did you know that the diet products are owned by the food-industry and the pharmaceutical industry? And also one important thing, if one ruins the receptors slowly the people will forget, at the age of 50 most people can't remember what happened when they were young and this benifits politics and the medical world, never asked yourself why, all of a sudden, every disease is genetic? Never wonder why political scandals are kept in the closet for at least 50 years? See, if one can sedate, one can make a lie become the truth with every new generation. And the elderly who say that it was all different when they were young are speaking the truth, because they are the lucky ones, they can remember. The problem with you guys is that you have been indoctrinated by our control policy, if you like to hear this or not, it's a fact. It started in school where you learned exactly what your government wanted you to learn.

At least you eat Brazil-nuts, that is a start.

Ray Fawkes 19-9-2000 09.33 pm
Hello you awake person, at least one of you guys noticed that something is going on.

It is a huge, real problem and it started 20 years ago but it went absolutely wrong about 10 years ago. The pharmaceutical industry hands out new, free medicines to the hospitals to get the patient addicted to the drugs, so that they keep on taking it when they are out of the hospital. They are actually the pushers who seek new clients and the hospitals are eager to take all these new, free medicines, because that saves them lots of money and well somewhere down the line, the budget of spending money includes the free drugs and it also results in of giving the patients easy and abudant drugs.

Did you ever wonder where all these new genetic diseases come from? Do you really believe that all of a sudden we all seem to have genetic flaws? Did you ever ask yourself how come we are so sick? Did you ever wonder when you go on a holiday to other cultures, why the people in non-western countries are healthier, did you ask yourself why are the people all of a sudden so sick and fat?

Also a sad and criminal act is that the pharmaceutical world is actually paying for the studies of new physicians, and are paying doctors to either come to their seminars, or are the head sponsors of medical congresses, young docotrs in most western countries don't know a damn thing about diseases, except which medication to give for what sort of symptoms and its our children, our women and the elderly who are the victims. But their greed forced them to show their faces and we welcome every little mistake they make.

Ganesh 19-9-2000 11.10 pm
You don't like it when people don't trust what you stand for anymore, don't you? Ha, get over it and wake up, cos its going to get worse. The world that you're still defending is losing ground with every new mistake they make. If people didn't get all these new genetic diseases overnight, then maybe they could have fooled the people a little longer but the greed got in their way.

Have you ever told your patients what happens in their body when they want to get a quick fix? Have you ever told your patients how bad these chemicals are for their neurons, brain-receptors or their heart?

Anxiety managements techniques?

Excuse me, how about: what is your lifestyle, what do you eat, how much daylight do you get or do you eat enough clean cholesterol (which is needed for the heart and brain), do you get enough sugars in your body (your brain needs 125-150mg of pure glucose a day to function in a healthy way) or fats. Look at the food they are eating and you would be able to help a lot of your patients, without them needing any chemicals, but then again, I have no idea where your ethics lie. How dare you patronize the parents of children who have ADHD? They really have no idea what happens to their children and the child itself is going crazy from all the wrong impulses its getting from the foods, and what you also forget is that these kids are all formula fed as of their birth, or after 3 to 4 months, and this gives them all the wrong messengers to their brains. No parent wants to pump their child full of sedatives if the doctor were to tell them the truth about what it means for the health and, therefore, future of their child. It's because you doctors have been telling these parents that it's totally safe to use. And it's also you doctors that keep your mouths shut when you see that there is more to the bad behaviour of a child but that is when you regard the parents, all of a sudden, as untouchables.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are more doctors screwing up than ever?

Why do you think that the psychotic, paranoid, schizophrenic people refuse to take the medicines? And why do you think that they really need medication?

Did you ever put the fear of the church and the politicians and the definition of what makes a person psychotic, paranoid an/or schizophrenic together?

Did you know that most of these medication, which are specially designed for these people, only have one purpose and that is to diminish cognitive functions and, in extremis, destroy all memory?

What has been the reason for you not to work as a psychiatrist anymore?

While the needier of the 'worried well' want nothing more than to be force-fed anxiolytics for life...? What an attitude you have. Do you think that because the people come to you for medical help, this entitles you to a higher position in life? Your arrogance is extremely unhealthy for a doctor, no wonder they only want pills from you, because you really serve no other purpose than to subscribe for them.

If people come to you and only want minor tranquilizers to take away their anxiety, or so that they can sleep at night then its up to you to understand this and find out what the problem is, because you are not only a doctor but an ex-psychiatrist as well, so how come you don't understand your patient?

A man is not only what he eats but also reacts according to what he eats because, actually, food-chemicals influence neurotransmitter-metabolism. Have a nice day.

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Jack Fear
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posted 22-09-2000 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Fear   Click Here to Email Jack Fear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I make it a policy not to trust people who are so completely certain of everything.

There can be no one single answer: the world's too complex for that.

Sounds to me like you're not reformed at all, sir. In fact, you sound a hell of a lot like a robot, albeit one that runs on a different operating system from the rest of us.

I'm out of this thread: it's no longer worth my time.

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Ganesh
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posted 22-09-2000 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If every single illness, disease, malady or discomfort was paired with a specific, easily-identifiable genetic or biochemical abnormality, medicine would be a hell of a lot simpler. Biochemistry and genetics certainly play a part but the dopamine and monoamine theories can't even begin to describe fully a single 'cause' for disorders such as schizophrenia, depression (bipolar or unipolar), OCD, anorexia nervosa, etc., etc. It's just not that straightforward.

I'm afraid I skimmed through the rest of your message when it became insulting, so I'll assume the rest was rhetorical.

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Ganesh
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posted 22-09-2000 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, I've looked through it again and it certainly looks rhetorical to me. I suspect your views are, if anything, more fixed than my own and anything else I say from here on will only make you angrier.

I'm still a psychiatrist, though, but specialising in General Adult rather than Child Psychiatry.

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Herne
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posted 23-09-2000 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Herne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ReformedRobotMan:
Herne...of course, you walk the path of magic, don't you?

What is this shit? I'm no more a magician than Paul Daniels is a stunt racer. If you want me to have a reason for not sharing your paranoia, how about: you're a god damn lunatic. That's it, and fuck you in advance for the next nyah-nyah-nyah smugly abusive "you're all dozy and stupid" post. You cannot be so concerned and contemptuous at the same time; surely it's not possible? How do you cope with the strain? How do you reconcile the insults with the responsibilty? On whose behalf are you concerned? Ours? Then back down. The unborn children? Shouting at us isn't going to help them. The whole world? Then you are really going to have to be more pragmatic - some you win, some you...go down in flames.

I'm sorry, but we're just not on your side. Some of the things you say are fine, but on a very basic level; your science is an extension of the medieval concept of humours - you are what you eat: phelgmatic, choleric, sanguine or melancholic - as simple as that. Wai's basic thinking boils down to: if it was good enough half a million years ago, it should be good enough now. Well we just don't have the same environmental pressures to contend with now as we did then, and fortunately nowhere near the same infant mortality rates or levels of senility (although archeological evidence is thoroughly unreliable and both our points of view possibly far off the mark). On the whole we are healthier and fitter and do live longer (Biblical testaments not withstanding). Modern medicine has actually made it possible to beat evolution in some sense - we no longer live according to survival of the fittest. Even the most fucked up have a good chance. If we all reverted to a fresh fruit, raw meat diet, and stopped using pharmaceuticals of any kind, the population would drop off sharply. There is a trade off we have to accept just to allow people to exist. As for depriving children of a good start, stupid parents will beget stupid children and intelligent ones will not. It is always thus. There has never been any guarantee that raising a child on mother's milk produces a healthy balanced child in the first place, has there?
It is not a perfect world, but a perfect world would include only perfect people and I find the notion distasteful.

I find the antics of the capitalist industry as disgusting as you do, but they are ALLOWED to get away with them, by consumers. There is no conspiracy, no long term plan to sterilise or lobotomise or over-feed us into idiocy. If the Western world conquers all, it is not the Western world's fault. It is human beings who can't help wanting newer, easier, shinier lives, even if they know they are shallow and pointless and bad for them. No-one is hiding anything, so accept the fact that some things you just can't help, and get off our backs.

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Tiresias
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posted 23-09-2000 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tiresias   Click Here to Email Tiresias     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ReformedRobotMan:
Tiresias 17-9-2000
'I've just checked the site...'

If you have a photographic memory, never ate any prepared high protein foods, never drank any alcohol or took chemical drugs and you have the age of at least...60/90 years then you can just check the site. But for you, Tiresias, it's really impossible, as your brain receptors aren't the cleanest anymore and, therefore, you will need a lot of time to understand what waisays. The first step for you is to open up your consciousness and tap into your subconsciousness, walk the path in between and connect left to the right. Do you believe that you are capable of doing so? I don't think so.


I think I can hazard a guess that almost nobody on the planet is capable of doing this, so I don't know why you bothered really.

quote:

'One or two facts smothered in scads of bollocks...?' Wai dares you, point out the one or two facts and show Wai how these one or two facts are smothered in scads of...What was that again? Ah yes, Wai remembers now...Bollocks!

So you are Wai are you? I'd be very dubious of a diet that leads to excessive posting in the third-person.

quote:

'Dubious of a site that doesn't automatically work on Netscape'...My, my brainwashed by society as well. Microsoft is the enemy, right?

They certainly are. Unfortunately they don't produce Netscape, Netscape produce Netscape. Foot, gun, point, BANG!

quote:

Open your eyes and listen to your subconsciousness instead of running after the flocks (and your stools must be stinking all the way to China). Tiresias, did you know that the world is a tad bigger than your Netscape garden? Have a nice day.
Waisays.

How did you know I had a curry last night? The medium is the message. If you can't be bothered to take 10 minutes to make sure your pages are compatible with the most-used browser after Internet Explorer (which is the one made by Microsoft, so you are already collaborating with the enemy)that's an awful lot of people who you aren't going to reach with your tedious message.

quote:

Tiresias 18-9-2000 11.00 am
You find me one scientific investigation that proves that consuming prepared food is healthier than consuming unprepared food.

Its not about trusting Wei...? Ooops, wrong spelling, Wai.


Pot, kettle alert!!

quote:

Its about trusting your own common sense, but then again who am I referring to, you or the addicted slave of commerce you have become. So, Tiresias, part of the industry, hey?


All right, explain to me how not believing Wai means I automatically believe the industry? How about I don't trust anything?

quote:

We are chilling and leaning back, looking at you slowly but surely crossing that bridge to Alzheimer's and incontinence, flavoured with chemotherapy. Wai will read you the latest Potter book in the hospital, shall I make reservations?

Well, at 24 I think I don't have to worry about the Alzheimer's just yet, is that the sound of a sweeping generalisation I hear? As for the incontinence, you'll have to get me drunk first. With regards to the chemo, I'm sure my aunt who is currently going through her first course will find that hilarious.

I would take you up on the Harry Potter offer though as all the library copies are reserved from here to the day of 4motion.

Otherwise I realise you are just a tedious reactionary who is not truly interested in debating but on insisting that your way is the 'right' and 'true' way, so I'll just back out now and you can froth into empty space to your heart's content.

[This message has been edited by Tiresias (edited 23-09-2000).]

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Ganesh
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posted 23-09-2000 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mmm. What started out as a moderately interesting link to a site on nutrition has evolved into something altogether more vicious - and it's clear that any further attempt at reasonable discussion will be processed, digested and taken as grist to the propaganda mill. Backing out seems a good course of action.

Good luck to you, ReformedRobotMan. Perhaps everyone here IS too stupid, evil or neurotransmitter-impaired to appreciate whatever it is you're attempting to 'give' us. I'll doubtless continue to read your posts, though; your future revelations may even shock me out of my wilful complicity with the Evil Empire of Food and Drugs.

Hope you have a long life; at present it doesn't seem an especially happy or contented one. And remember - even dinosaurs got cancer.

Take a chill pill, mate.

[This message has been edited by Ganesh (edited 23-09-2000).]

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ReformedRobotMan
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posted 23-09-2000 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReformedRobotMan   Click Here to Email ReformedRobotMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First let me clear about this: since it seems to matter to some of you, RRM and Wai are not one and the same. In that point, let's go:

"Ganesh,
A disease like Parkinson's is characterized by impaired metabolism of dopamine/serotonine. If this is not the cause, it is not Parkinson's.
Let me simplify that for you: A broken leg is characterized by a fracture in the bone. If there is no fracture, the leg is not broken.
By the way, dopamine is a monoamine as well.

Jack Fear,
When Superman opened up to you and showed his insecurity, you loved to kick his ass. But when someone is very self-assured and knows what he is doing, you are pissing your pants.
Is Jack Fear an alias for Coward Coyote?
By the way, Superman is way superior to all of you."

I'll be very direct: You who are so willing and eager to display your ignorance and disability to learn (or even read), you mean fuck-all. The replies so far have been by people that sadly have lost face, without any proper content that will lead us to somewhere. Why do you insist on fiercely defending something that is not very defendable?
I really mean it: retire to your pathetic, selfmade, mediocre HELLS, fuck you, go to sleep and be plagued.
RRM

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MJ-12
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posted 23-09-2000 04:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MJ-12   Click Here to Email MJ-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
threads like this are why I get out of bed in the morning

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Herne
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posted 23-09-2000 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Herne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crickey.

You seem to be of the opinion we are all sitting here typing away with our mouths stuffed full of Big Macs, coffee beans and liquorice allsorts. We are not. We just don't agree with your wilder hypotheses. Better luck elsewhere, RRM.

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ReformedRobotMan
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posted 23-09-2000 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReformedRobotMan   Click Here to Email ReformedRobotMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know, Herne, it is so funny (or rather: not very) to see you make presumptions that this is for you. That what me and Wai are doing is to discuss with you nay-sayers.
That your fervent wishes to remain ignorant would be the reason why we got up in the morning. That, although what my name implies, we are here to reform you.
As if we will allow your pubescent bickering, when it becomes serious, come in the way for the other non-vocal people whose mode of thinking hasn't yet been corrupted and stagnant. Like this last death rattle that you're trying to sustain with illogical assumptions, it is stale.
And we have equipped some of you with parts of our knowledge (and yeah, there is a whole lot more, but it's not for you scared shitless, vocal children). And what we have provided is enough, you can take many of the hints from here yourself.

This is, for now, my last 'appearance' in this forum (Cue: cheer, but sadly for the wrong reasons).

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Jack Fear
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posted 23-09-2000 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Fear   Click Here to Email Jack Fear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh for FUCK's sake... Hands up whoever's got a Messiah complex!

(yeah, I know: I just couldn't stay away...)

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Ganesh
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posted 23-09-2000 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
<sigh>

I know, Jack. Neither of us is very good at letting go of an obviously-deteriorating situation. Let's call it 'addenda', eh?

Dopamine IS a monoamine, but the Monoamine and Dopamine Hypotheses are separate models, which was my original point.

A fractured leg is a fractured leg - but you cannot apply as simplistic a model to account for the entirety of 'disease'. The vast majority of symptom complexes have no single, easily-identifiable biochemical 'cause' - Parkinson's Disease is consequent upon abnormalities of neurotransmission between dopaminergic and cholinergic systems, yes, but it's one of the exceptions. Schizophrenia, depression, anorexia nervosa and plain ol' cancer have no such readily-discernable 'cause' and appear to be the product of a number of poorly-understood factors. I'm sure there IS an as-yet-unidentified dietary component to many of these disorders but it's likely to be just that - one component of a more complex system including genetic, environmental and cultural determinants.

The irony is, I don't think we're hugely disagreeing on these basics, ReformedRobot. I do think you're making many assumptions about me and what I somehow 'stand for' which don't necessarily have a firm basis in my reality or yours.

(I just wouldn't let it lie, would I...?)

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Ganesh
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posted 23-09-2000 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I'm just sad that now we've all proved how 'pathetic' and 'scared' we are, we're not going to hear the revelations which would've brought the world as we know it to its knees.

Bugger.

Oh well, back to the Valium and Doritos...

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E. Randy Dupre
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posted 23-09-2000 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E. Randy Dupre   Click Here to Email E. Randy Dupre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Followed this thread for a while, got bored, came back when I was even more bored.

Just one question: If the shit that we're throwing down our throats is what's stopping us from reaching the evolutionary level required to appreciate what waisays, what is RRM eating that causes his mental constipation?

Part of the idea here is to be open to concepts which we don't necesarilly agree with, and view themwithout all of the propaganda and bias that otherwise goes with new/old/socially 'unacceptable' ideas. Unfortunately, RRM, you don't seem able to even entertain the idea that a lot of what waisays may be - and that's may be, not is - wrong.

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Cameron Stewart
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posted 24-09-2000 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cameron Stewart   Click Here to Email Cameron Stewart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Reformed Robot Man is the new Eloi.

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Ganesh
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posted 24-09-2000 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But less charismatic.

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Zenith
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posted 25-09-2000 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zenith   Click Here to Email Zenith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nurse Robotman: "He needs to see a doctor."

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Bizunth
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posted 25-09-2000 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bizunth   Click Here to Email Bizunth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
RRM reminds me of the boyfriend in Online Caroline...Reality imitates reality?

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ReformedRobotMan
Junior Member
posted 25-09-2000 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReformedRobotMan   Click Here to Email ReformedRobotMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ganesh,
Doctors like to claim diseases are complex because it makes them look bright when they know how to prescripe Prozac. But are they complex just because of being multi-causal?
You can get wet by falling into a pool, but also by walking in the rain, but does that make getting wet a complex happening?
Diseases are no more complex than anything else in life. Those who claim so try to exclude others from knowing.
Depressions can be caused by lack of sugars, low cholesterol level, death of a beloved one and also by beta-carbolines from food impairing serotonine metabolism. But that does not make depressions a complex disease.
Maybe you should live a bit more by day instead of night, sneaking candy and chasing fat guys in squeezing tight leather outfits.
Maybe you should retire and leave your job to someone who is young and still cares.

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MJ-12
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posted 25-09-2000 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MJ-12   Click Here to Email MJ-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well, at least RRM has done his research on Ganesh...

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E. Randy Dupre
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posted 25-09-2000 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E. Randy Dupre   Click Here to Email E. Randy Dupre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Woo-hoo! The revolution wil be started by healthy-eating! Break down those barriers, brothers & sisters.

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Jack Fear
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posted 25-09-2000 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jack Fear   Click Here to Email Jack Fear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, apparently the revolution will start with unbendable dogma and peevish name-calling.

Then again, what do I know? I'm to be the first up against the wall, apparently....

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MJ-12
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posted 25-09-2000 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MJ-12   Click Here to Email MJ-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wait your turn, Jack.

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Herne
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posted 25-09-2000 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Herne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I fall into a pond with my umbrella up, will I stay dry?

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Ganesh
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posted 25-09-2000 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ganesh:
RRM: all those things are associated with unhappiness, yes, but is an association a 'cause'? Where does 'normal' unhappiness shade into 'clinical' depression? If it's so straightforward, why doesn't everyone who's been bereaved or gets hypoglycaemic/hypocholesterolaemic become depressed? 'Multifactorial' doesn't = 'multicausal' We know many factors in the genesis of schizophrenia, for example, but what's the 'cause'?

I'd say it's more self-aggrandising to claim you know a single, simple cause for illness. But what do I know - at thirty, I'm clearly over the hill.

I'm flattered that you care enough to research me, sweetie - digging up those threads must've had you working day and Work on those love-handles (a couple of dozen buffet pork pies should do the trick), squeeze into a pair of leather trousers and hey! you could be mine...


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Ganesh
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posted 25-09-2000 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(Wow, now I'm quoting myself. Must be something I ate...)

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Zenith
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posted 26-09-2000 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zenith   Click Here to Email Zenith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ReformedRobotMan:
Doctors like to claim diseases are complex because it makes them look bright when they know how to prescripe Prozac. But are they complex just because of being multi-causal? You can get wet by falling into a pool, but also by walking in the rain, but does that make getting wet a complex happening?

RRM, you are Chris Morris and I claim my £5...

quote:
Maybe you should live a bit more by day instead of night, sneaking candy and chasing fat guys in squeezing tight leather outfits. Maybe you should retire and leave your job to someone who is young and still cares.

No, no, no, you've got this all wrong. By night, Ganesh wears tight leather outfits and chases bad guys. He's the Scottish Midnighter, y'see...

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ReformedRobotMan
Junior Member
posted 26-09-2000 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ReformedRobotMan   Click Here to Email ReformedRobotMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ganesh,

I am happier now more than ever that this diet excludes love handles.
Research? Thanks to your exhibitionism, you can hardly call it research.

I understand why you so desperately try to convince people that diseases are complex: your ego thrives on your position. And to maintain the status of that position, common citizens have to be unable to understand the causes of diseases. And people also need to be aware of your position, of course, that's why you tell every new person here.
'Unfortunately', as long as we are not trying to mystify disease by using 'hypoglycaemic' instead of 'low sugar', disease is no more complex than anything else in life.

The simple fact is that every human being feels down when sugar or cholesterol level is low. Feeling down structurally = depression.
Once you know the characteristics of a disease, you can track down the cause(s).
If sugar level is low, consuming diet-products can be the cause of depression.
If cholesterol level is low, the doctor's advise to lower the cholesterol intake can be the cause, or, for example, being a vegan.

And to answer your question about schizophrenia: Though schizophrenia is 'multicausal and multifactorial' (like baseball and beer), the causes are very clear:

In schizophrenics, different brain-receptors are more sensitive. They are both more susceptible to communication that seems unreal to most of us, and to drugs and food-chemicals that can impair metabolism of the involved neurotransmitters.

Some schizophrenica are actually just 'gifted', but become 'schizophrenic' due to the drugs they get.

In some people with sensitive endorphin and/or dopamine receptors, consuming wheat products can cause schizophrenia. Simply because wheat-gluten contain extremely powerful opioid peptides (one of these is a 100 times more powerful than morphine), which can impair metabolism of endorphins and/or dopamine (see: www.12.waisays.com ).

In some people, schizophrenia can be caused by consuming too much proteinous prepared foods, which contain HCA (see: www.23.waisays.com ) that lower susceptibility of GABA-receptors (see: www.7.waisays.com ).

The political establishment and the medical world, especially, are constantly keeping information from the public and disguise the truth by using a language the public does not speak. People get frustrated by the 'unexplainable' pains they have to endure, regardless of the drugs they have been prescribed, and totally pissed off by politicians and psychiatrists that protect pedophiles. With the frustration, pain and anger, comes hate towards what they cannot understand. The intolerance you face as being gay, is the intolerance you feed by keeping the people from knowing how diseases are caused.
As long as you don't acknowledge that diseases are no more complex than anything else in life, you are co-maintaining the intolerance, and you can kiss your wish goodbye of ever having a climate where gay people can live openly.

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E. Randy Dupre
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posted 26-09-2000 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for E. Randy Dupre   Click Here to Email E. Randy Dupre     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How many times can you say exactly the same thing?

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Lionheart
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posted 26-09-2000 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lionheart   Click Here to Email Lionheart     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So far I haven't visited the sites but here's what I know...

The current cases of Polio infectioin in the U.S. are caused by vaccines. I don't understand why the vaccine is still being administerd and why the U.N. game some company money to make more polio vaccines.

The first anti-hiv drug (don't remember the name. Three-letter name starting with the letter "A" I think) was used in the 60s to treat cancer but was found to cause more cancer.

If you read the advertisements for HIV drugs they say that the most common side effect is that the drug kills T-cells.

Why does my can of breadcrumbs say that there's 24 grams of sugar in each serving?

Why aren't we using certain techniques that have been proven to treat certain health problems? Like, for example, the guy who effectively treated cancer by asking cancer patients to draw their immune system as knights fighting the disease. The patients drew the knights as very small people and the disease as an incrediblyhuge monster. When told to draw the monster as an extremely tiny creature and the knights as huge gigantic guys the patients did and they started thinking of their health battle in that way and their conditions improved.

Why aren't we using bio-feedback to treat a lot of health problems? In the book "Beyond Biofeedback", by Elmer Green, Green cites cases where epilepsy was succesfully treated (not cured though, but the patients condition greatly improved), treated and cured migraines, helped people effectively control their blood pressure, and did a bunch of other things.

See, I do believe that there are instant cures. And why shouldn't I? Almost all synthetic medicine has negative side effect which can lead to other health problems. I really do believe that corporations are making us sick in order to get money from us. And why not? Why is that so hard to believe? They keep screwing us over in every way possible and we still don't accept the fact that they are hurting us. We can't accept the fact that out government (US that is, I know alost nothing about the British government) used and probably still uses mind control (MK-Ultra and other projects), that it spreads viruses around cities to get people sick (San Francisco, New York,and most currently the West Nile Encephillitis outbreak in New York [though it has been shown that it isn't west nile encephalitisbut a deriative of Japanese encephalitis] has been caused by the Department of Defence). We don't accept the fact that we are currently living in police states same as Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia,etc.. We know it happens but people don't understand the fact that it all has happened already.

I think that the current amti-globalist protests (especially now, with the protests in Prague) aren't really protests. They are battles fought (peacefully most of the time) by revolutionaries. Doesn't it seem that way?

Oh, but on a very, very good side of things, people aren't getting stupider. They're actually getting smarter, it's just that the stupid side of things is more apparent and we tend to focus on stupidity more than we do on intelligence.

Peace Monkey!

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Ganesh
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posted 26-09-2000 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Love handles... exhibitionism... ego... 'simple fact'... 'gifted' schizophrenics... wheat gluten... GABA receptors... disguised language... protecting paedophiles... intolerance to gay people...

Whaaa...?

(Time for a break.)

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Mirror
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posted 26-09-2000 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirror   Click Here to Email Mirror     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
RRM:

So, what, exactly, does the medical community stand to gain from all this deception?

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WiseGuy
Junior Member
posted 26-09-2000 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WiseGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I THINK he's talking about the perpetual motion thang of money/addiction/money/addiction... not sure though, because wading through his posts is like trying to watch porn without a decoder.

Did anybody else think that "waisays" was supposed to be pronounced "wise-ass"? I thought it was all a cunning joke.

And I don't actually mind people being sure of themselves. It's kind of nice in this day and age. I think, however, that RRM has bunny-fucked his point somewhat by being a bit of a cock. This isn't self-assurance or confidence.

RRM - you don't have to be wrong to be a loony. Everything you post seems to have this nasty fanatical pong following on behind. This makes people uneasy and want to chain you up for the good of others. Not because what you say is The Truth and so You Must Be Stopped, but simply because that's what you do with people who start foaming at the mouth.

Maybe you aren't selling. But thanks to your attitude, no one's buying. Nice one.

Incidentally, Ganesh - much respect for your patience/reasoned argument. I would have told him to fuck himself in the ass with a broken bottle myself. You do this for a living, don't you?

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Ganesh
Member
posted 27-09-2000 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesh   Click Here to Email Ganesh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, I do it for the power/sex/money/conspiracy/evil.

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manking
Junior Member
posted 27-09-2000 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for manking   Click Here to Email manking     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I thought I could rant.
Disease.
BSE (re: Summer of Evol in Winter's Edge) has been the recent subject of fear in my part of the U.S. To all appearances, cattle feed manufacturers, indolent farmers, and federal aid appear to be complicit in the continued idiotic practice (lifted from Brittania) of processing, drying, grinding, powdering and pulverizing dead cows and feeding that along with various necessary nutrients and vitamins to sheep, poultry, and other cattle.
The effects of BSE are virtually inseperable from Alzheimers in humans. In cattle, it manifests as what has been known as 'Falling-Over Cow Disease'. I'm not joking.
FLUNT!
"Did that cow just fall over?"
"Yep. Damnedest thing. Happens every once in a while."
"They don't look very healthy. What's causing it?"
"Well, some city vet came down and said it was 'Falling-Down Cow Disease'. Don't know what does it, though...."
As Gideon and various medical professionals have noted, BSE liquifies the brain after a prolonged (nearly indefinite) gestation period, leaving the interior of your skull filled with something that has the consistency of travel soap.
The projected fatality rate, last I heard, (from two out of ten) is somewhere in the neighborhood of ten billion. Provided, of course, they stop now.
Keep in mind, I haven't kept up with the BSE phenomena over the past few months, so if my figures are wrong, don't skewer me too heartily. I'm not out to promote a scare. I just find it sickeningly amusing that we keep following Britain's example.
And there are the nastiest rumours about soy and tofu and McDonalds....
manking
Of course, they're only rumors.

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manking
Junior Member
posted 27-09-2000 10:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for manking   Click Here to Email manking     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's this about 'gifted' schizophrenics?
Strangest thing; my ears are burning.
manking

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